Team Stacking

[Another Villain]

Its getting to the point that new players get shafted on our servers, and Vets leave if they are not on the stacked team.

Is there anything we can do to help balance the teams?

I always try and set an example, to switch teams to try and even things out, but no one ever follows.

It always ends up with 5-10 regulars on one team & 2 on the other with many newbs.

Ideas? Bueller?

[Baskanavitch]

If there are vets/regulars leaving because they are not on the 'stacked' team, good riddance I say.

And no, there isn't anything that can really be done to help balance the teams. 5-10 regulars on a team doesn't mean a guaranteed win, either. I've seen that plenty where the team full of regulars gets their asses handed to them for whatever reason. Flying a -V- doesn't automatically mean a player is that much better than another. There are a good number of regulars I see that are very good but don't necessarily have the -V- in their name.

Search around on the forums a bit, I know this has been covered (extensively?) in the past.

[beatnik]

Post what you're thinking about right now...

[pipski]

Yep there is some discussion already going on behind the curtain about the team stacking issues. Its a tough one to crack, cause I understand theres a fine line between team stacking and wanting to play with your BFFs.

Most of the people who play here regularly know each other, have a lot of time on the server and because they play together so often tend to be better than the average person who is passing through. Also the fact that subscribers are immune to autobalance often keeps the stacks in place, but thats what people pay for so its not gonna change.

There are two solutions, one would be an automated shuffle at the end of a round if one team is totally dominating the other. I dont know how one would implement this fairly it would have to be some metric based on average score, rounds won and time to win. Very difficult to detect accurately especially with multistage attack/defend maps and would often spoil the momentum of a game which would piss people off. The other solution which I think would be useful is an admin shuffle command which allows admins to randomize teams if it looks ridiculously stacked. Of course that only helps if theres an admin on, and would only be used in extreme cases where the loosing team is leaving in droves and killing the server.

With or without these changes, I suppose a plea to players to follow Schizoid and Villans example of choosing a random team, and to ask people not to join spec after being autobalanced is all we can really do for now.

[Dustin_53590]

i just try to get on the blue team regardless of whose on it....i like blue lol

[Warden]

Originally Posted by Dustin_53590

i just try to get on the blue team regardless of whose on it....i like blue lol

i like red better actually. But back on topic i try to go against stacks, but i gotta say it isnt very fun at all sometimes, which i why i can see why ppl hate them so much. I just try to look at it as good practice(i.e.: i get to practice against (usually) good players).

[Kira teh Blip]

Aye, what Warden said is true.

I tend to be switched even if I am on the winning team, but that really isn't much of a problem (to some extent)

I only miss the VOIP, for usually the other side with moer V tend to communciate a lot more.

I still communicate regardless of which side, but obviously I don't get as much feedback from my team if I'm on the unstacked/less-V- team.

At the end of the day, it does provide for awesome practice against awesome players (usually)

And! Not to mention, when we do win, it does feel quite awesome ^.^

[Karina Ferrer]

Originally Posted by Baskanavitch

5-10 regulars on a team doesn't mean a guaranteed win, either. I've seen that plenty where the team full of regulars gets their asses handed to them for whatever reason. Flying a -V- doesn't automatically mean a player is that much better than another.

QFT!! This statement can be true with many communities and clans, mine included. I really don't see there being a way to change this without the help of some the regulars making sure not to stack the teams and trying to make it even. I do have to say that I don't like being on the other team just because they usually don't talk as much and the teamwork some times isn't there but the regulars just need to suck it up and play and when the map changes that is your chance to be on the other team. Also don't spectate it just makes it worse for who ever gets auto'd then you take there place just because you weren't on the right team.

[SchizoidMan]

Originally Posted by beatnik

Post what you're thinking about right now...

See beatnik's link above for my comments on this. My feelings are pretty clear on the stacking issue.

Also, I've seen beatnik several times DE-stack to go on a losing team so he can help them. Beatnik rules.

[Valthonis]

When did TF2 turn into Natural Selection!? i'm so confused...

/deja vu

[Ostwind]

I know what everyone is talking about and much like villan and schizoid were saying, I have begun hitting the random button.

Just this morning there were a few of us on the server (technogeeky was on I know for sure) playing cp well. I whitnessed another V go into spectator after being team balanced, then after no one else joined the server for a while, they disconnect. Could be purely coincidental, but perception could say otherwise.

We V's need to be the better players and when a stack is present, we need to be stewards of the servers.

[Liwi]

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. >_>

[AsYLuM-DeMoN]

Originally Posted by Liwi

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. >_>

What he said.

[Retribution]

lol, I say if you can't beat 'em Blow the crap of them.

[King Morty]

Originally Posted by pipski

There are two solutions, one would be an automated shuffle at the end of a round if one team is totally dominating the other. I dont know how one would implement this fairly it would have to be some metric based on average score, rounds won and time to win. Very difficult to detect accurately especially with multistage attack/defend maps and would often spoil the momentum of a game which would piss people off. The other solution which I think would be useful is an admin shuffle command which allows admins to randomize teams if it looks ridiculously stacked. Of course that only helps if theres an admin on, and would only be used in extreme cases where the loosing team is leaving in droves and killing the server.

Agreed this is a problem. When you're getting dominated so badly that you can't get out of spawn, something is definitely wrong. I see a three-fold solution to this:


1) Create a vote_team_shuffle command
Similar to vote_map, any player can execute this. If the vote passes, the teams get shuffled immediately. Maybe reset the team scores, maybe not. DO NOT reset the player scores. The vote can't be majority rules, however. The stacked team will always vote "no", and all votes will end in a tie. I'd suggest a 40% pass rule: on a 30 person server, 12 would have to say "yes" for the vote to pass.


2) Create a mercy vote rule
The server will kick off a vote_team_shuffle automatically if the score is, say 4-0 or 5-0. Whatever voting percentage needed to pass for a user initiated vote would apply here as well. Since this type of vote may be running on Voogru-only servers, visitors might not know that this command exists.


2) Create an admin_team_shuffle command
Available to admins only. Immediately shuffles the teams with no player vote. The admins can switch the map at will, so it follows they should be able to shuffle teams as well.


This is off of the top of my head and may not be completely baked, but after re-reading I can't think of any unintended consequences.