Team Stacking

[SoBe Green]

Then what is to happen to those that simply went AFK too long? The first thing that happens is the switch to spec. When that person comes back what if they auto team and end up on the opposite. They'll get banned. The reason you probably see a lot of spectators is because the server puts them there if they go AFK. If someone is spec too long the server removes them. As long as there are people in the server that are immune to auto balance you can never expect the teams to be balanced and really shouldn't expect other players to react any differently. Just because they didn't subscribe is no reason they should be banned. The rule may have worked in NS or TFC but I don't think it applies here very well.

If you are going to ban people for something so trivial it should be in the MOTD. I like this place because everyone is overall friendly. I don't want to sit and listen to an admin threaten every person who goes spec. I want to have fun. I enjoy the fact that for the most part the admins want that same thing. Going spec isn't hurting anyone and the server in its own automated way will take care of that. Going out of your way to enforce that rule is just going create more problems when none existed to begin with.

[SchizoidMan]

What's so wrong about playing opposite your friends once in a while? It's not like the server isn't allowing friends to play, just go with what's available. I play here because it's a great & friendly community of folk, regardless of whose side your on. You should be allowed to bring friends over, but know that because it's so popular here, there's a trade-off.

[SoBe Green]

There is nothing wrong with playing opposite your friends. I'm saying there is something wrong with banning those that don't want to. I'm saying we shouldn't ban people for wanting to play with the stack instead of against it when we the subscribers are the ones creating it. I'm just asking the staff to rethink this a little. With the subscription system in place the message you will eventually send is: Subscribe or be banned.

I just see no difference in going spec to stay on the team you want vs. being immune to auto balance and being able to be on the team you want at any time. Specifically when you have a person who goes spec and it is impossible for the admins to know if that person joined spectator or if the server put them there for being AFK (which subscribers are not immune to). Essentially I could be playing under a different name and be banned for being AFK after the server put me in spec and I came back to join a team. Then I'd be banned for supposedly trying to stay on one team when I could have joined it since I'm a subscriber.

Nobody likes having someone in power threatening people ingame. I'd prefer to listen to horrible quality techno music someone is playing with HLSS than to listen to an admin threaten every tom, dick, and harry that went spec for any reason. It gets down to the point that I just want to say: "Hey we get it you are an admin. Ban the hackers and let me play my game."

Admins can't be on all the time. I'd prefer you guys do one thing above all things when you are around: Have fun and play. People don't enjoy admins interfering with their gameplay when they themselves have done nothing wrong. Earlier (and I assume this was an admin) we were on granary and each time the round time limit was about to expire we would get a magical 1:00 added. To me this was far more obnoxious to deal with than a player who chose to go spectator.

[GrooTheWanderer]

For those naysayers who have doubts, there are valid reasons for wanting to be on the same team that COULD have noting to do with stacking. I'm sure there are other valid reasons, but I thought I could provide at least one valid example to show everyone who opposes team swap that there are good reasons for it.

When Porcupine and I play at the same time, we are frequently in the same room playing. I can look left and see his screen, he can look right and see mine. I can hear his audio but I wear a headset, so he cannot hear mine... but he can hear me speaking to my team.

So now imagine we're on different teams and I can hear the moves his team are calling out and he can at least hear mine (we all know I'm vocal). Now how fair is it to either team that we know insider info? None at all. That is one of the reasons I have subscribed both of our accounts. Between the 2 accounts, we can always force a team swap so we're on the same side (only if necessary). It has nothing to do with wanting to play on the same team and everything to do with being fair and doing what's right. I hope this information helps some of you with very negative attitudes re-think that MAYBE, just maybe there are good reasons for the things people do. Just because you do not understand, doesn't automatically make it wrong.

For those who think they get screwed by auto-balance, stop whining and subscribe please or just get over it and help your new team when it does happen. It's just a game and we're supposed to be having fun playing, not get worked up and bent out of shape. Think happy thoughts, smoke a bowl, calm down, take a deep breath and relax.

[dafox]

teamstacking cant be that much of an issue in tf2. its a part of the game anyway, not that much you can do about it.

btw when is the new ns coming out

[Tekish]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

With the subscription system in place the message you will eventually send is: Subscribe or be banned.

No, the message we send is play the game and follow the rules, or don't play here. As much as your friends may be inconvenienced by not being able to play with you, consider what's happening to that random person that gets screwed by the auto balance. He/she has just as much right to play on a particular team as your friends. They don't get special "I'm always on your team privileges" just because they know you. Sure, you can say the other person can go spec and switch too. Well, how does that make the situation better? Now everyone will be busy exploiting the spec/balance/switch and the servers will be in chaos. There are reasons this is not allowed, and this scenario is one of them.

If you look at the (old, but still relevant) rules page, you'll see mention of a command called autoassign. Back in the day, this command was used to prevent team stacking in NS, and while its use is not as mandatory today as it was back then, the same reasoning for its creation still applies. As for the "how do you determine when someone is AFK in spectator," the solution is obviously simple - we ask. And, to further address that particular issue, AFKs will soon go straight to kick instead of spectator, so that will rectify that problem once and for all.

That said, let me put this as bluntly as I can so it's crystal clear - going spec for any reason other than demo recording is something you shouldn't do, period. It violates the rules that you agreed to follow by playing on the servers, and whether you like them or not, they're there, and need to be followed.

Originally Posted by Temeriti

It's awfully hypocritical for you to say, "Come play with your friends on Voogru servers!" and then temp-ban those that...well...attempt to do just that.

I don't know who's conveying that to people, but it certainly isn't me. The only thing I have to say about the servers is "come play, but don't be a dumbass."

[SoBe Green]

Originally Posted by Tekish

And, to further address that particular issue, AFKs will soon go straight to kick instead of spectator, so that will rectify that problem once and for all.

That would most certainly make me feel better and makes this still slightly odd rule make more sense. Now the only thing that really makes this rule obsolete is the fact subscribers are immune. On a popular night at least half the server or more is subscribers and they aren't always all on one team. This means on average that out of 15 players over the course of a few hours will all be auto teamed multiple times not counting the amount that will be kicked when a subscriber or donator connects. To me people should have a chance at trying to play on the team they can but if they can't then oh well I suppose.

[SchizoidMan]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

To me people should have a chance at trying to play on the team they can but if they can't then oh well I suppose.

They do have a chance, a 50% chance if you hit the random button. (I am The Random Button Crusader, btw)

And yes on busy nights, it's pretty much Subscribers Night. But as I posted earlier these are popular servers, and you have to deal with the trade-offs, one of which is the strong possibility that you and your friends won't be on the same team. It's the nature of the beast.

Look, I get sad & teary if I'm not on Luigi's team every night, but I know that we'll probably reunite at some point in the evening or the next day. No harm no foul. (just a broken heart...but of course Chibihead's usually hanging around on my team, so I'm not too sad)

[MomawNadon78]

bah, nvm. Pointless to even bother.

[king 0f banditz]

Originally Posted by pipski

Lol, that was on Hydro, i remember the game but who the hell said it? However twass funny as fuck.

A: jobo vs pink
B: starrraven vs lah

winner A vs winner B plays bloodsire in the final, now i'd watch that for a dollar

I am guilty for that one.... During sudden death I told the team "If you want to live, hide behind Jobo..."

I am usually first connected on map changes and join whatever or if I come while a game is playing I join the the team with the lowest amount of players (With reserve slots I just join the team that had the player kicked.)

[SoBe Green]

Originally Posted by SchizoidMan

They do have a chance, a 50% chance if you hit the random button. (I am The Random Button Crusader, btw)

And yes on busy nights, it's pretty much Subscribers Night. But as I posted earlier these are popular servers, and you have to deal with the trade-offs, one of which is the strong possibility that you and your friends won't be on the same team. It's the nature of the beast.

Look, I get sad & teary if I'm not on Luigi's team every night, but I know that we'll probably reunite at some point in the evening or the next day. No harm no foul. (just a broken heart...but of course Chibihead's usually hanging around on my team, so I'm not too sad)

I'm not arguing this for the sake of me and my friends. I have a friend play with me maybe once or twice a week lately not at all. I'm arguing this for the die hard regular joes. But as I said I throw in the towel on this. I've been at this for years and I rank the average joe above any of us. They are the heart of the game. They are the guys who might get 20 points per round but never complain. The guy that comes in, plays, has fun, leaves and you never even knew was there. I care about the community and I apologize if I've offended anyone. I just don't think that rule is a good one. I think thats obvious and I'll shut up now until something else comes up.

[Drayth]

I think the bottom line is to just quit trying to fix what ain't broken; this shit's been going on longer than I've been here and the servers/community get more popular by the day with more regs showing up and staying.

Don't try to police our fun and risk ruining a good environment/atmosphere...it happens, yes, and sometimes it's pretty bad, but it isn't the "majority" thing nor do they always win and sometimes even results in the funniest shit you've ever seen like 20 teles in blue spawn on gravelpit or blue having full control of red's well base but still being unable to cap because of 10 coordinated engs spread out in the int room lol


TL;DR: If it ain't broke don't fix it. Quite worrying so goddamn much and just enjoy the GAME with your friends, both with and against them ;p It is IMPOSSIBLE to balance teams in any way shape or form. General skill is an iffy undefined argument as it is...and we have alot of skilled people at various classes...their skill vs particular opponents varies too. I can spy around most people but Neutron always finds me no matter what for example. Even if you sat there 24/7 manually moving people and forcing them to stay there, I guarantee you it'd either be onesided eventually or you'd be changing the balance every other kill.

[Warden]

Originally Posted by Drayth

I think the bottom line is to just quit trying to fix what ain't broken; this shit's been going on longer than I've been here and the servers/community get more popular by the day with more regs showing up and staying.

Don't try to police our fun and risk ruining a good environment/atmosphere...it happens, yes, and sometimes it's pretty bad, but it isn't the "majority" thing nor do they always win and sometimes even results in the funniest shit you've ever seen like 20 teles in blue spawn on gravelpit or blue having full control of red's well base but still being unable to cap because of 10 coordinated engs spread out in the int room lol


TL;DR: If it ain't broke don't fix it. Quite worrying so goddamn much and just enjoy the GAME with your friends, both with and against them ;p It is IMPOSSIBLE to balance teams in any way shape or form. General skill is an iffy undefined argument as it is...and we have alot of skilled people at various classes...their skill vs particular opponents varies too. I can spy around most people but Neutron always finds me no matter what for example. Even if you sat there 24/7 manually moving people and forcing them to stay there, I guarantee you it'd either be onesided eventually or you'd be changing the balance every other kill.

well said!

And for my own personal input. If you dont like stacks then get better to fight them off, or get so good that people will want to join your team.

[pipski]

Originally Posted by Drayth

I think the bottom line is to just quit trying to fix what ain't broken; this shit's been going on longer than I've been here and the servers/community get more popular by the day with more regs showing up and staying.

QFT, Not often I agree with Drayth, but hey theres a first time for everything. Yep the servers are thriving and everyone is having fun. So can we finally put this thread to rest before tempers flare.

[beatnik]

Ok. Wasn't going to let the thread end on warden's weak post.(Suck less? Thats your input?)

Schiz. Stop sucking. Then you will do better. And then ,after you do better, you will smell less. Then when you smell better, people will play with you again. In the mean time pipski has a truck you can ride in the back in. He may even buy you some Hardee's (Carl jr's) if you are a good boy and don't wag your tongue too much over the side. We'll get into the issue about the fleas later.