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Now about that alltalk. - Page 3
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MassaStorm View Post
    All talk drives me up the wall
    Same. Us old folks gotta find a retirement home where these whipper-snappers will let us have our peace.

  2. #22
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    Please excuse my poor sentence structure but here is my two cents. There is no perfect solution but ever since this change the server (at least when I have been on) has mostly been completely quiet. The matches have been more serious which is fine but with the exclusion of the old alltalk, there has been no levity in the games anymore.

    I understand the concept of having two separate channels, and in theory it would work. Although people who want alltalk can go on a separate channel it is incredible difficult to organize. Instead what has mostly been happening is people typing in alltalk, realizing no one is there, and typing alltalk to exit. However, this creates a cascading effect of even more users doing the same thing, alltalk in and alltalk out, resulting in spamming of the in-game chat log.

    You might wonder why don’t they stay in the alltalk channel and wait for someone to come in? Well people are afraid of being the only one in the alltalk channel and missing out on potential conversations in team talk. What if no one comes in? You cannot force your friends to come in and awkwardly start a conversation with them? Then you have would wasted the whole time waiting, being excluded, and playing the whole game completely silent.

    I was on the side of the teamtalk opt out like Pipski, but now I understand on the flip side of the issue as well. I understand some people hate alltalk. You cannot force people to listen to alltalk nor hearing half a conversation any no fun. I dunno. I hope there to be a better solution than what is currently in place. It just felt weird to celebrate a birthday, not be able to hear birthday congratulations from both teams, and to play seriously and quietly during a celebration.

    Not to badmouth but really the only one spamming the votealltalk has been the user Arrow. I’m not sure way he types it in for every single start of the round. I feel that he is the only major person who is really causing the always on alltalk and this current backlash. When he is not playing it seems that alltalk is sparse maybe once every 3-4 long maps. I think people do not mind alltalk if it is only on every once and a while under the right circumstances. I personally like to play seriously. I main as medic and overall do everything I can to coordinate my team win. However after playing intense hours of dustbowl and upward, I kinda want to take it easy, relax, and have stupid fun. Teamtalk tells me to play for real. While alltalk lets me and other players know to not take the game so seriously. I understand what MassaStorm is saying, that we can talk outside of the game. However, the game is the facilitating medium in which some people talk to friends and others. Only through playing that some people can get this unique spontaneous form of communication.
    Maybe part of a solution can be solved by having an admin on reliably on. Ever since the absence of Pipski the server has not had a reliable admin playing in matches to maintain order, like shutting down always on alltalk. With no one on or in reach at like 1:30 A.M CT, issues like this can occur.

    Voogru Crazy House for some people is a social server which people come to openly talk, have fun, and exchange stories. It is why many have become regulars because they liked the people and the atmosphere. It is the community that makes the Voogru servers so successful. With it being mostly quiet it now, it sort of feels like every other server with nothing really unique. Maybe this is because the natural progression of Crazy House, or the drastic changes in the GunMettle update, but playing here at times feels hallow.

    Please do not rip me a new one. I am just trying to explain my frustrations to all the problems the server has been facing.

    Side note: Maybe people just don’t like the individual users who talk during alltalk. I know some users have different personalities that can clash or irritate others. Maybe the issue is interpersonal issues but I guess that is a whole different problem.

    ~Also the end of the round automatic RTV system seems to not work half the time. Please fix it if possible.

  3. #23
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    So Solution #1: the idea to opt out of alltalk, buy typing 'teamtalk' so effectively the other team is muted to you. Admittedly the flaw here is that you will still be able to hear your teammates having half a conversation with someone on the other team. But I think people could live with that.


    Solution #2: We set up the other server exactly the same as the Crazy house, same rotation etc etc. The only difference is one has the old Alltalk vote enabled, one has the new Alltalk channel running, give it a couple of weeks and see which one is the most popular. Hey in a perfect world both will be populated!


    Solution #3: if the perceived problem was too many people spamming the alltalk vote. Make the ability to start a vote a subscriber only perk

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pipski View Post
    So Solution #1: the idea to opt out of alltalk, buy typing 'teamtalk' so effectively the other team is muted to you. Admittedly the flaw here is that you will still be able to hear your teammates having half a conversation with someone on the other team. But I think people could live with that.
    The people using "teamtalk" are getting shafted with this solution, sure they only hear their teammates, but keep in mind they are also hearing their most vocal teammates have half a conversation constantly. This is not a compromise, this is breaking more than mending.

    Quote Originally Posted by pipski View Post
    Solution #2: We set up the other server exactly the same as the Crazy house, same rotation etc etc. The only difference is one has the old Alltalk vote enabled, one has the new Alltalk channel running, give it a couple of weeks and see which one is the most popular. Hey in a perfect world both will be populated!
    If this was five years ago, sure this might be viable to have one server with alltalk and one without, but our one server is active for 1/4 of the day. This will only shun who ever is stuck with the new server IP, and divide the community more.


    Quote Originally Posted by pipski View Post
    Solution #3: if the perceived problem was too many people spamming the alltalk vote. Make the ability to start a vote a subscriber only perk
    Giving one person to ability to throw up a pop up vote is to much power over the rest of the 31 players regardless if they pay money monthly. There is a reason why we use rtv to change maps, and it takes 2/3 of the server to votekick someone. Imagine if we used the votealltalk system for changing maps, muting people or kicking someone.



    I am still forming and opinion on how well this is working out. Sure in the short term, alltalk is effectively off for individuals. The ability to have it on/off on a whim is appealing. If I want to have fun and talk with friends while screwing around I would be able to do it.

    Long term I am less certain this system will work, if players are rigid with their choice, and only use teamtalk or alltalk. If people freely flow between the two it might work out. Well see I guess.

    The preferred method of getting alltalk enabled/disabled is to have it on a 50/50 vote, 51%wins similar to how we had it before. But the important difference would be in order to get that yes/no vote it would need to be triggered by 2/5 of the server. Like RTV, people need to say "votealltalk" and then the pop up vote would proceed.

    The point is get the actual players in the server to voice hey I want alltalk instead of the lone individual. It is hard to argue the server does not want alltalk, if we had 2/5 people start the vote and with forewarning a pop up vote is starting.

    Let the people in the server decide,

    If they want it on they simply say so, If they do not they refrain from saying "votealltalk", If they simply could go either way, they do not care and it really depends on what map or current mood of the server then they choose at the leisure whether or not to say "votealltalk". It wont be a rushed pop up vote they will be forced to say YES or NO. Having one person start the yes/no vote lead to it being abused constantly.



    What I would like to see is this server to have some friendly banter between teammates, while playing the game. Throw in some occasional alltalk to spice up things up, given a certain map, holiday, birthday, some event. But hey if people always "votealltalk" I will not be able to argue they It did not reflect what the server wanted.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by willl View Post
    If this was five years ago, sure this might be viable to have one server with alltalk and one without, but our one server is active for 1/4 of the day. This will only shun who ever is stuck with the new server IP, and divide the community more.
    I didn't mean make one server alltalk only, I meant have the old system of calling a vote for alltalk run on one server, and have the new alltalk channel running on the other, then...

    Quote Originally Posted by willl View Post
    Let the people in the server decide,
    Agreed, they will play on the server which offers the system they like best.

    I should mention as I wrote last nights post at around 2.00am, there was no one on the server, and as I post this I notice that there is only 4 people on the server (Feisty, will, nerdguy and coopdawg), normally it would be full this time of night so obviously something needs fixing!
    Last edited by pipski; 07-15-2015 at 09:07 AM.

  6. #26
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    Hybrid-talk pros:

    • Sandboxes annoying chatterboxes (who can't go 5 seconds without hearing their own voices) away from me and other people who are annoyed with the insipid, obnoxious, loud, and contentious discussions.


    Hybrid-talk cons:

    • "alltalk" command is non-intuitive
    • I lose the ability talk to my team (sans text chat. text is lame and inefficient)
    • Not everyone on my team can talk to me
    • Can't turn on all-talk for special occasions.


    Suggestions:
    Make the server 100% all-talk enabled, 100% all-talk disabled, or unify the "vote_alltalk" command under the parent vote system so that no dipshit can enact an all-talk vote every 1-2 minutes (similar to what Willl explained earlier in the thread). This will tell the community that you're cementing the definition of what you're selling and/or securing that the vote system won't get abused.

    All-talk wouldn't be so absolutely grating to put up with if there weren't 2-4 career speakers taking up most of the air time. If admins would consistently keep the peace (i.e. calm people down/ask certain people to take a break from shouting), "100% all-talk" would not be a problem.

    Vote system suggestions:
    Make one command invoke the system: "!vote" "!menu" or "!rtv" or "rtv"
    The parent options would be the following:

    Code:
    Nominate:
    4. Scramble
    5. Map Change
    6. All-talk
    7. Kick
    8. Mute
    Report:
    9. Abuse
    A nomination vote would trigger a server event that would display the following to all the users

    c0ld-- has elected to start an "All-talk" vote. Voting will start in
    3..
    2..
    1..
    This will warn users who has elected a vote, what the vote subject is, and that a vote is about to begin. Then the system will prompt all users with another pop-up dialog prompt:

    Cast your vote to turn all-talk on or off:
    4/5. Sure, turn it on! Let's get social.
    5/4. No thanks! I prefer to talk to my team.
    Each time this vote is elected, the #4 and #5 slots would "randomly" be shuffled to detract from people hitting the same button to dismiss the pop-up dialog. It would also help balance the parity with people carelessly voting "yes" when these pop up.

    With SourceMod this is very easily implemented. All it will take is maybe a night's worth of work. I know Voogru and Technogeeky are pretty familiar with SourceMod (and MetaMod) and how it works with TF2. If y'all are too busy I would be glad to help. But I think a lot of us would agree that the commands on Crazy House aren't exactly intuitive - especially with regards that most of the servers out there use similar commands or intuitive commands to invoke certain actions. One of my favorites is from "Fucked in the Head servers where users can type "!fuckthisbullshit" or "!fuckthis" when they want a scramble.


    As for items like "kicking", the system would programmatically populate player names into the "kick" nomination option. The 9th slot will be used to paginate between further lists of player names. For example.

    7.a ->
    Who needs a kicking?
    1. Player1
    2. Player2
    3. Player3
    4. Player4
    5. Player5
    6. Player6
    7. Player7
    8. Player8
    9. [See more...]
    (the "See more..." would list 8 more players on the server in the 1-8 numbered slots)

    7.b ->
    State your reason:
    4. Spam
    5. Hacking/Griefing
    6. Breaking one or more server rules
    7. General asshattery
    The same could be used for "mute". The 9th option would trigger a notification to use a Steam Bot to message any admins that are online. Or maybe email. Or a personal butler could call people personally.

    It's after 5PM. Work day is over. Time to go home.

  7. #27
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    Was on the server for a while earlier, so I got a chance to get a feel for the new system.

    I like the idea of going back to the alltalk vote / admin-initiated alltalk, but letting users type "teamtalk" to opt out of alltalk after it has been enacted. This will make alltalk easier to organize and provide a place for the "no" voters to assemble, to do their strategic stuff and/or avoid the noisy drunkenness that alltalk brings.

    I think pip or someone already proposed this idea, but I wanna second it.

  8. #28
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    Though I do think players who liked to initiate alltalk nominations should take some time to get used to the system, for at least a little while. Type "alltalk" and ask some of your friends to join you, if it's a map that you want to alltalk on.

    People rarely used alltalk to chat with more than a few people at a time; maybe we're realizing we don't need it as much as we thought we did.

    Quote Originally Posted by spelled
    Side note: Maybe people just don’t like the individual users who talk during alltalk. I know some users have different personalities that can clash or irritate others. Maybe the issue is interpersonal issues but I guess that is a whole different problem.


    That's probably a bigger component than anyone would care to admit. Different people want alltalk at different times, depending on who's on. Even alltalk-enthusiasts would become wary if there was--perhaps--a chatty_tetris on that they would rather not hear, etc. That's why the "opt out" solution is so appealing.
    Last edited by blue_tetris; 07-17-2015 at 12:43 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_tetris View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sphelled
    Side note: Maybe people just donít like the individual users who talk during alltalk. I know some users have different personalities that can clash or irritate others. Maybe the issue is interpersonal issues but I guess that is a whole different problem.
    That's probably a bigger component than anyone would care to admit. Different people want alltalk at different times, depending on who's on. Even alltalk-enthusiasts would become wary if there was--perhaps--a chatty_tetris on that they would rather not hear, etc. That's why the "opt out" solution is so appealing.
    Fair point. However, I'd say I can tolerate near 100% of the people that talk on the server. It's the duration that these people talk and the frequency all-talk is turned on which I have a problem with.

    I have a problem with the "opt-out" function because it puts the onus on the people who want to escape all-talk to get back to the default state in which the game was meant to be played - you know, the cornerstone to team-based gameplay. You might as well turn in-game voice off all together or join a 3rd party voice server if you are so bent on getting away from all-talk.

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_tetris View Post
    This will make alltalk easier to organize and provide a place for the "no" voters to assemble, to do their strategic stuff and/or avoid the noisy drunkenness that alltalk brings.
    The thing with noisy drunkenness is that it used to have a certain charm to it when team-talk was on. It was a bit more intimate listening to someone try to muster the semblance of a "strategic mind" while trying to make a push (a la song). Or perhaps someone calling out a drunken rally cry to build a defensive position. With all-talk there seems to be mostly noise. It's fun sometimes. Most times it is not. I wish more people would speak up. I've received a fair share of
    "I wish X person would shut up."
    or
    "I couldn't take it on the server anymore. I don't know how you put up with Y constantly talking"
    Then again, I don't see most of these people playing on Crazy House anymore.

    Basically, you're all annoying fuckers.


  10. #30
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    Man.... there are so many full serious servers out there with no alltalk available for all you pro's that want to play this game the so-called "way it was meant to be played" (as if that means anything). There are very few social places where people get to jump in and chat while playing a game. What attracted me and a lot of people to this server was the social aspect of late night game play. That was what made it unique, different, not the same as every other server.

    I think this change was "fixing" something that wasn't broken. Think about it: if voting alltalk got alltalk going so often that it annoys the "serious" players, then guess who's in the teeny tiny minority? As such, it is more fair for the naysayers to have to opt out of alltalk, rather than pick on the, clearly, majority of us who keep voting alltalk in. Why does the "default" have to be team talk on one of the few cool places to hang out in TF2. I say again, there are so many other places for them, there are few for those of us who like alltalk. And, it really is the ONLY reason I continue to play TF2... to hang out at Crazy House with people I have come to chat with and play a game with at the same time. I lose interest when there isn't alltalk on the late night games. And, I think you may find this place becoming pretty boring and uninteresting if this crapping on alltalkers keeps up.

    Here is another way to think about it. The annoyed teamtalkies seem to keep coming back even with alltalk on. On the other hand, those of us coming for the alltalk are not going to hang around much longer if it turns into another run-of-the-mill quiet server.

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