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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by voogru View Post
    The reason for this was I didn't want it to get confusing, for example, if you can hear someone not in the alltalk channel, you may be replying to someone who can't hear you.

    Maybe we can try it anyway though. I was thinking of simply adjusting the logic, maybe something like if the person on the other team, and is in the alltalk channel, anyone else in the alltalk channel can hear them too regardless of team.

    Then you could still hear people on your own team as normal.
    Okay, right on. I assumed that's why you did it, to separate the two to prevent entropy. However, I find the divisiveness a bit off-putting.

    For what it's worth, I think the most ideal solution would be as follows:

    1. Have an additional voice channel, the "alltalk" channel;
    2. Players can join or leave this channel by typing "alltalk" in chat;
    3. Players would still hear teammates who have not opted in this channel;
    4. A separate bind for speaking in the alltalk channel, perhaps "+voicerecord2", would allow you to talk to anyone in that channel;
    5. This leaves your regular voice bind available to simply talk to your teammates.

    The downside of this is that it's slightly more complicated, and would require folks to make a new bind and be certain to use that one instead of their regular one when in the alltalk channel. However, it shouldn't be hard to get used to -- folks use mumble all the time, and that requires you being conscience of a voice bind secondary to your in-game one as well, so not much difference there.

    At any rate, we all certainly appreciate you taking the time to address the issue and to find a middle-ground for us. Thank you. And God bless you.

    And God bless the United States of America.

  2. #12
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    3. Players would still hear teammates who have not opted in this channel;
    I don't really understand why, though, Freak. You want to limit who you have to hear if you're on teamtalk, but you think more people should have to hear you?

    If this were implemented, alltalk players should be able to opt out of teamtalk for the same reason teamtalk players opt out of alltalk: To limit who you have to listen to, and limit who you talk to. No one will use the alltalk channel if you have to hear multiple overlapping conversations. I think anyone in alltalk would naturally want teamtalk muted to avoid the noise, and vice-versa.

    The original solution is elegant.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakwentcy View Post
    And God bless the United States of America.
    The fuck freak. You leave the USA out of this.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakwentcy View Post
    4. A separate bind for speaking in the alltalk channel, perhaps "+voicerecord2", would allow you to talk to anyone in that channel;a.
    I can't trigger voice activation because it's client side (think about how creepy that would be if servers could activate your microphone and then internally mute you so nobody hears you... except for the server, and recording everything thats happening.

    I could make an 'alltalk' command, and then you could do something like this:

    alias +alltalk "alltalk_on;+voicerecord"
    alias -alltalk "alltalk_off;-voicerecord"

    bind key +alltalk

    However, everyone would have to put that in like an autoexec.cfg in their tf2 directory so that it works.

    Not exactly elegant or userfriendly.

  5. #15
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    freak your solution is way to complicated, here's the bottom line
    the server thrives on alltalk on some maps, and on certain nights when it just feels right


    either way you slice it, having the alltalk channel is still game breaking, people in there cannot communicate with their own team.

    I refer you to my earlier post, leave the alltalk vote the way it was and give people the option to type 'teamtalk' so they can only hear their own team, its simple and easy
    Last edited by pipski; 07-11-2015 at 07:01 AM.

  6. #16
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    I'm going to throw my two sense in without reading any of the previous comments.
    I like it as-is.
    I don't want to have to listen to half a conversation. If they're talking to the other team, they're not talking to me so I should not need to hear them.
    Plus I know the ones left on my team are talking to me and can hear me talk since there's not a crowd I have to yell over.

    With teamtalk proposal, I can opt out of listening the other team drone on but my teammates replies to them.

    Ok I lied. I am reading comments but only the last two since they fit on the screen above the Quick Reply.

    If we did go with Pipski's suggestion I suggest we at least change the votealltalk to act more like rtv and require a third of the players to propose it or maybe just three. Whatever the case, one person is too few. Plus it needs a cooldown. Some days I would just disable the vote option and then wait for any other player other than the one who would immediately type it every single map and again if the vote went to Disable so I could manually toss up a vote.

    Neverending calling votealltalk until it wins is super annoying.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_tetris View Post
    I don't really understand why, though, Freak. You want to limit who you have to hear if you're on teamtalk, but you think more people should have to hear you?
    Huh? I never said that. Maybe you misread my original statement:

    3. Players would still hear teammates who have not opted in (the alltalk) channel;

    I don't think it's much to ask to expect that, by default, you can hear people on your team, and they can hear you. That's kind of how the game was implemented, and the majority of FPS's ever created, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. I never said, nor attempted to imply, that more people should have to hear me.

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_tetris View Post
    I think anyone in alltalk would naturally want teamtalk muted to avoid the noise...
    To be frank, I have never even contemplated the presumption that people wouldn't want to hear people on their own team while having alltalk turned on. Isn't the point of alltalk literally ALL talk? Why does it matter if people happen to be on your team or not? Alltalk is an umbrella term that encompasses players on both teams, not just the people who happen to be opposite from you.

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_tetris View Post
    No one will use the alltalk channel if you have to hear multiple overlapping conversations.
    Okay, that literally DESCRIBES ALLTALK. I love you man, but have you been into the Gaffer's ale again?

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_tetris View Post
    If this were implemented, alltalk players should be able to opt out of teamtalk for the same reason teamtalk players opt out of alltalk: To limit who you have to listen to, and limit who you talk to.
    But why stop there? In the name of fairness, why don't we also take dustbowl -- which some people like but others don't -- and splice it in half and paste it into half of upward -- which some people like but also hate. It's only fair!

    This is getting out of hand.

    I agree with pipski on this mess: leave things the way they were, but just adjust the parameters a bit until it's more balanced. How hard is it to have alltalk on a few rounds, then off another few rounds? In fact, by my observations, over the last several months, I've noticed a significant improvement in the alltalk-to-not ratio versus what was happening a year ago, so I'm not even sure why this is being address now, a whopping year and some months after that thread was made.

    I also agree with Nerdguy in raising the number of rtv commands it takes to start a vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by voogru View Post
    I can't trigger voice activation because it's client side (think about how creepy that would be if servers could activate your microphone and then internally mute you so nobody hears you... except for the server, and recording everything thats happening.

    I could make an 'alltalk' command, and then you could do something like this:

    alias +alltalk "alltalk_on;+voicerecord"
    alias -alltalk "alltalk_off;-voicerecord"

    bind key +alltalk

    However, everyone would have to put that in like an autoexec.cfg in their tf2 directory so that it works.

    Not exactly elegant or userfriendly.
    Ahh, okay. I wasn't sure if it was feasible to simply create a new command (+voicerecord2). I assumed there wouldn't be a way to actually implement my take on the solution, but I appreciate the breakdown of what can and cannot be done.


    Nifty as an idea that voogru has come up with, I personally think having a separate channel is ultimately an idea that might look good on paper, but will be difficult to implement. It's divisive, and feels unnatural. And I certainly don't like the idea of having to "pick a side" if I see some people going into the alltalk channel while others stay in normal chat.

  8. #18
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    It is divisive to have to "pick a side" when some people want alltalk and others want teamtalk. But we've always had to pick a side and it's always been divisive. In the old system, the more popular side got their way and everyone else had to deal with it. With voog's system, each user controls their own experience.

    But no matter what method you prefer: You just cannot broadcast to a channel who cannot respond to you. That's not how communications works. If you don't like voogru's system, pipski's proposal makes some sense and it abides by the logic that amateur radio enthusiasts have been using for a century.

    Quote Originally Posted by pipski
    I refer you to my earlier post, leave the alltalk vote the way it was and give people the option to type 'teamtalk' so they can only hear their own team, its simple and easy


    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdguy
    If we did go with Pipski's suggestion I suggest we at least change the votealltalk to act more like rtv and require a third of the players to propose it or maybe just three.


    I like the idea of retaining the alltalk votes, but giving users a chance to opt out. I would add a line to pipski's suggestion: "so they can only hear (and talk to) their own team". Again, to prevent cross-talk.



    I think we owe it to Willl and the old-schoolers who have been championing this cause to at least try the method voogru's devised. It is the kind of autonomous system that proves itself in practice. People will either naturally use it for fun alltalky maps and avoid it for serious strategy maps; or people will find that it restricts their audience too much.

    But why don't we try it?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_tetris View Post
    With voog's system, each user controls their own experience.
    That's not exactly true, since my experience up until now has been that, whether or not alltalk is turned on, my team can still hear me. Voog's new system takes that away from me if I choose to enter the alltalk channel, unless the entire rest of my team follows into that channel as well, thus making my experience not so much in my control, but moreso in control of the rest of my team.

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_tetris View Post
    I think we owe it to Willl and the old-schoolers who have been championing this cause to at least try the method voogru's devised.
    I hope you count me in that group, and take my opinions into consideration as well as theirs, since I was the one who actually started the Alltalk thread to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_tetris View Post
    But we don't we try it?
    Of course we should try it. We should try anything (within reason) before just completely knocking it off the table. Trying things out also helps to grow new ideas and solutions that we may not have been able to see before -- so yes, I encourage trying it out. My initial reply to this thread was not to suggest we shouldn't try it, but more to immediately point out an extremely apparent issue that I wanted to make sure was being taken into account. I stand by that observation and will wait to see if others agree.

  10. #20
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    I haven't played in over a year, up until very recently, and I like Voogru's suggestion. I like to talk with friends but honestly I'll do it outside of the game. In the game I'm all try hard and surius bitness. All talk drives me up the wall because I can't warn anyone, relay information or hear useful info pertaining to the round because of the stuff that makes my eyes cross.

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