-=EclipsE=- Banned?

[-=EclipsE=-]

Not sure, but seems like it. I cannot log onto either server (30 or 24 player) this AM (1/14/08). It gives no message when I try to join other than, Disconnected by Console.

I don't know how to tell what my Steam ID is, can someone reply with instructions?

Story: Any ban was not done while I was playing. I play regularly here on these two servers, they are two favorites of my sons and I (HS and college-age sons). We all play under different names on two steam accounts, you may know them as Ghandi and/or Ghandinumberone. I always play as -=EclipsE=- though they do change names occasionally.

Anyway, what reason our account was banned is unknown to me. Can an admin just reply here with what is going on? Thanks.

[Chronopolis]

In game, go to console and type "status". Once you post your STEAMID here, we'll be able to find out what happened.

I did ban an individual who had names that implied discrimination/racism. Ghandi or Ghgandinumberone was not the individual I banned though. The guy I did ban I kicked twice, and they kept coming back with a different name. So if that is you or one of your sons, there is a reason you are banned. If not, then I don't know what happened and you may have to ask voogru or the other admins.

[NeoStyle]

Yeah, without your steam id, not much we can do.

Join a game, type status in console, and it will show your steam id (like chrono said, I just like being repetitive)

[-=EclipsE=-]

Thanks, Chronopolis, here is my Steam ID "-=EclipsE=-" STEAM_0:0:11989854

I see that there are rules against racism on your forums that apply to your servers. I'm certain that that must be what one of my sons ran afoul of, they have on occasion used a name such as Last Action Negro. I find that a witty pun on the Arnold movie The Last Action Hero and not racist in the least. I know my son's thinking that equating a hero with a person of color would be a good thing. I suppose PC works in a different way, anything offensive is in the eye of the beholder, not in the intention.

If you can pardon this offence, and reinstate this account, I will tell the boy(s) to avoid the appearance of racism in future gameplay on your server. I'm certain that no slight to players or admins of your server was intended. I would much appreciate a second chance. As I said, we all find your servers to be favorites on our favorites list. Personally, I would estimate I play 75% of my time on the 30 or 24 player Voogru servers, the rest don't hardly even count (usually, just waiting there for a spot to open on a Voogru server).

Best regards to the Voogru community,

-=EclipsE=-

P.S. Hi, Pipski!

[Chronopolis]

Originally Posted by server rules

5. Bigotry/Racism/Sexism -
This type of behavior is not tolerated whatsoever. Anything that even implies a racist/discriminatory/sexist remark or action will result in a permanent ban.

The name was changed several times to other names once I kicked them, that, in my opinion, implied racism. The problem here, is they may have meant well, but one has to be careful in how they go about using those kinds of terms. For all we know, it may have been a way of being discriminatory, and certainly, that is how it sounds in my opinion, particularly with the other names they used. Names like that can easily be taken the wrong way or sound offensive, which is why we try to keep it off the server in case it may cause conflict.

Moreover:

Originally Posted by server rules

If you have been banned, the "It was my brother, sister, mom, dad, grandpa, grandma, girlfriend, boyfriend, dog, cat, mouse, bird, bot, zombie" excuse does not work here. You are responsible for who uses your computer, and more specifically, you’re STEAM ID..

Up to this point, the ban stands as it is. I'll have a talk with some of my fellow admins, and if anything changes, I will let you know via PM.

[-=EclipsE=-]

You certainly can do whatever you want with your admin power. But I was kicked tonight playing on a completely different Steam account. Are you banning/kicking accounts or players? Because if players, you shouldn't kick me, I haven't offended, you can ask ANY NUMBER of regular players including mysterious admins (i donno who are admins).

If you are kicking/banning accounts, then why did you kick me tonight (Jan 16 '08, 7PM Central USA time, approx 1AM GMT)? I did nothing to warrant a kick, playing under my USUAL name, -=EclipsE=-, and as I said, not playing on Voogru on the banned account. I also had been just having great fun for at least 2 hours, if not more, without ANYONE having any complaint.

If this is how you treat regular, rule following people, I hope your server dries up completely. I challenge anyone else that knows me to consider this mistreatment/admin abuse when you decide where to play.

Regards,
-=EclipsE=-

[Chronopolis]

Let me give you a detailed description on how this looks from my perspective. I ban your alleged "sons" for using different names that I consider racist and discriminating. Let me re-state these server rules:

Originally Posted by server rules

If you have been banned, the "It was my brother, sister, mom, dad, grandpa, grandma, girlfriend, boyfriend, dog, cat, mouse, bird, bot, zombie" excuse does not work here. You are responsible for who uses your computer, and more specifically, you’re STEAM ID..

I have no way of truly knowing you have any sons. For all I know, you could be some 14 year old pretending to have children and using that as an excuse.

I come on today and see you on the 30 man server with a different steamID. Now, lets say you do have children. I banned their steamID and now you come on with your own account and play with yours. How do I know you aren't a 14 year old who has multiple steam accounts?

In my opinion, I consider this ban evasion. If you've been banned, you are not permitted to come onto the server with a different steamID.

Finally, after looking at all that's been said, all that has happened, I honestly can't say I believe that you have children. Your comments regarding our server drying up is completely childish and uncalled for, which makes me believe you probably are some 14 year old. Moreover, I don't understand why a father would let their own child use racial names like that, especially on a public server where, in most cases, they are not allowed. Once again, I have no way of proving who you are, and if you have children, but I'm not willing to take that chance of believing otherwise, especially when it comes to racism. Other admins may take the issue more lightly, but you're dealing with me, and I'm very hard-nosed when it comes to it.

Altogether, your original steamID was banned for racism. For that reason, you as a player are banned from the server, regardless of what steamID you use.

[-=EclipsE=-]

Thanks for your perspective. I find your actions out-and-out Admin Abuse. I certainly won't put up with it. Anyone who does, deserves what they get.

Why is it abuse? Several reasons.

You didn't ignore what I already posted, you chose to call me a liar. That shows that this process doesn't presume innocence, that's for sure and certain. You presume my lying guilt and admin abuse me accordingly. I, on the other hand am going to presume you have the intelligence to follow reasonable logic.

Besides what I have already posted earlier in this thread, you banned my second account for whimsical, personal-attack reasons. How? Because you didn't ban my 2nd account for using supposed racist names, rather for a name (-=EclipsE=-) that I self-reported I had sometimes used on the first account. My sons play on that first account 95% of the time. As far as I know, you were not familiar with my name on that account. As a matter of fact, I dont recall ever having played with someone named Chronopolis.

I came onto your forums to politely request clarification for the first ban. I made a forum account under the name I play under (-=EclipsE=-), posted, received replies and your inaction regarding the ban. Fine.

Then you banned my second account only because you saw me playing as -=EclipsE=-, a name I only reported to you here on this medium as having been played on first account. Not a ban-worthy name, just a personal attack on me by an admin. Nor were you banning the same person on two different accounts, because as far as I know, I have never played on voogru when Chronopolis was on.

You are logically violating your own server rules by banning my 2nd steam ID. You quoted as follows:

You are responsible for who uses your computer, and more specifically, you’re STEAM ID.

Well, my sons that play on the first account banned were banned, not me. Now, as I said in my post of 1/16, you banned my second acct even though I have been and was acting "responsible for who uses your computer, and more specifically, you’re STEAM ID.." You banned EclipsE, even though I allowed no more potentially racist or other rule violating names on that Steam ID, nor was I in violation of your server rules at the time I was banned.

My final argument that you have been guilty of admin abuse is in relation to your quoted rule as follows:

server rules -- 5. Bigotry/ Racism/ Sexism - This type of behavior is not tolerated whatsoever. Anything that even implies a racist/ discriminatory/ sexist remark...

Admin abuse can be identified by wanton, personal attack, and inconsistent, selective invocation of rules. Here is how I will show you have done that. I will go check your server player list a few times randomly and post here names that are in violation of your own rules, proving abuse via selective enforcement. (According to your own argument first made concerning racist implied names, it is only in how it is interpreted by one looking on, not by what was intended.) Assuming your enforcement of Political Correctness is as haphazard as is usually found in general practice in social discussion and interaction, I will have a field day. Think you are up to such an empirical test?

Regards,
-=EclipsE=-

P.S. The first player name sample finds 4 names in violation. Will post when I have done more sampling.

[Chronopolis]

1. How do I know you aren't lying? Just because I raise that issue, doesn't mean I'm abusing my administration position. In fact, that's doing my job.

2. Of course I'm going to presume you guilty. You have no proof to show that you're innocent besides what you say, and honestly, that's not good enough. Am I suppose to presume you're innocent? Maybe in a courtroom, but not here. Unfortunately for you, all the evidence and logic is against your argument. If you had any shred of proof that showed you have sons and that they were the ones that changed the names, then I would reconsider.

3. You stated that your sons use the account 95% of the time. The rest of the time, you use it under your Eclipse name. Let me explain to you, one last time, how this looks from our perspective. Your "sons" went onto that account, changed the name to several racist names, and were banned for it. That means your "sons" AND you are banned from the server, regardless of which Steam account you use. Once again, I stress, how do I know it wasn't you who was consistently changing the names? I certainly can't prove it, but you can't prove otherwise either.

4. Too often have I seen players with multiple steamID's, consistently getting banned from a server, and just going on with another SteamID. This is BAN EVASION. You have no proof that shows you aren't one of these people. What are the chances of you having children? I can't say. What are the chances of you being one individual with multiple steamID's? High. Why? Because it happens far too often and is extremely easy to do. Once I saw you on the server again, I banned you for BAN EVASION, not because I have something against you, but because your "sons" AND you were originally banned for racism. Get that through your head.

5. You may find racial names on our servers, but remember, I or another admin may not be on at the time, and may not be able to ban that individual. We are not on the servers 24/7, so it doesn't prove anything about my "admin abuse" if you find those names. Feel free to waste your time on it though if it makes you feel better.

I want you to be aware, that I have been an admin on these servers and in this community for several years. If I were one to abuse my powers, I would have been gone long ago. You can make all the claims about me, but it doesn't do you any good, because when all is said and done, I'm doing my job.

Furthermore, you have claimed that I am out to get you. First of all, you stated that you have never played with me before. That's true. So then why would I be out to get you if I had never seen you on the server before? There would be no reason for me to hate you if I had never met you before. Moreover, you stated that you came on here politely and argued your case. I absolutely agree, you did, and I responded to your posts with the same level of politeness and kindness. Thus, why would I have something against you if we had no argument in the first place? The only time I possibly could have started to dislike you was when YOU initiated a more hostile post (see post #6), but by that time, your second account had already been banned.

Altogether, don't waste my time with your "logic", because the reality of it is, you can't prove you're innocent, and as I have stated before, I'm not willing to take the chance of unbanning you, especially when it comes to something as serious as racism and a possible ban evasion.

[voogru]

For the record, here are all of the names that were used.

For the first steam account he was banned on:

      -=EclipsE=- 		2008-01-13 14:48:37 
      A Good Start 		2008-01-09 17:02:30 
      Ghandi 			2008-01-09 16:45:45 
      ghandinumberone 		2008-01-07 19:16:08 
      Happenis 			2008-01-10 19:39:03 
      Negromancer 		2008-01-13 17:46:44 
      Obi-Wan_Negrobi 		2008-01-13 17:48:07 
      Stabbin you guy 		2008-01-09 14:56:17 
      Stank 			2008-01-03 19:39:03

Second account:

	-=EclipsE=- 			2008-01-16 20:01:41 
      	End Cat 			2008-01-15 18:07:52 
      	Ghandi 				2008-01-14 14:38:46 
      	Ghandi (pro-skud) 		2008-01-13 18:14:14 
      	LordOfTheMatrixFantasyWars 	2007-12-30 23:50:11 
      	RocketCrotch 			2008-01-08 19:03:44 
      	Snook 				2008-01-03 19:26:10 
      	SpaceTreeTheSpaceTree 		2007-12-25 11:17:28 
      	SpaceTree_the_SpaceTree 	2007-12-25 19:05:57 
      	The Last Action Hero 		2008-01-10 19:38:58 
      	The Last Action Negro 		2008-01-13 16:47:57 
      	The Last Action Negro (Batman) 	2008-01-10 13:00:43

remember folks, every name you use on this server is tracked permanently.